In Sickness and in Health
IN SICKNESS AND IN HEALTH - the podcast on health and social justice


This is a podcast about health and social justice.
Health is wealth.
Some of us have it, some don’t.
Some of us will live long and healthy lives… and some won’t.
But why me and not them? Why them and not me?
We bring you those stories...


Our Host

Dr. Celine Gounder - one of PEOPLE magazine's 25 Women Changing the World

In Sickness and in Health is produced and hosted by Dr. Celine Gounder.

Dr. Gounder is a doctor, a disease detective and a storyteller. When she’s not battling HIV, tuberculosis or Ebola in sub-Saharan Africa or caring for patients in some of the most underserved areas in the U. S., she’s at home in NYC.

And she's one of People Magazine's 25 Women Changing the World in 2017! Watch her interview with People TV here (jump to 39:45) or here.



Season 3: Gun Violence in America

Chapter 1: History and Culture

Episode 1 - An Unlikely Friendship: It's hard to imagine finding common ground on the problem of gun violence. In the 1990s, Dr. Mark Rosenberg and former Congressman Jay Dickey (R-AR) were "arch enemies." But over time, the "curly-haired, liberal, Jewish kid" and the "lifelong NRA member" became good friends. Science helped them bridge the gap, and together they proposed a way forward: a way to balance gun safety... and gun rights. Guest: Dr. Mark Rosenberg, President and CEO of the Task Force for Global Health, and the founding director of the National Center for Injury and Prevention Control at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.  iTunes  GooglePlay  SoundCloud  Spotify RadioPublic  Stitcher  Read the transcript

Episode 2 - A Uniquely American Compromise: Where does our Second Amendment come from? English law, like so many of our other laws? Or is it a uniquely American compromise? Guests: Lois Schwoerer, Professor Emerita of History at George Washington University and Scholar-in-Residence at the Folger Shakespeare Library; Carl Bogus, Professor of Law at Roger Williams University; and Alex Trimble Young, an expert on transnational settler colonialism at Arizona State University.  iTunes  GooglePlay  SoundCloud  Spotify RadioPublic  Stitcher  Read the transcript

Episode 3 - Guns & Honor: What is honor? When is it OK to use violence? And how do these ideas influence regional attitudes about guns and our nation’s laws? Guests: Eric Ruben, Fellow at the Brennan Center for Justice, Adjunct Professor at the New York University School of Law, and an expert on weapons law and the Second Amendment; Dov Cohen, Professor of Psychology at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, and an expert on honor, dignity and face cultures; Ryan P. Brown, Managing Director for Measurement at the Doerr Institute for New Leaders at Rice University, and an expert on the social and cultural dynamics of honor; and Sgt. Rory Miller, a self-defense and conflict communication trainer, and a former corrections officer and tactical team leader.  iTunes  GooglePlay  SoundCloud  Spotify RadioPublic  Stitcher  Read the transcript

Episode 4 - Gun Culture 2.0: Why do people own guns and how do they use them? What do guns mean to the people who own them? and to those who don’t? And is there anyone who can help bridge those worlds? Guests: David Yamane, Professor of Sociology at Wake Forest University, and an expert on Gun Culture 2.0 and the rise of guns as tools for self-defense; Kevin Creighton, a gun enthusiast and writer for, NRA Family and Shooting Illustrated; and Chris Marvin, former army officer, Black Hawk helicopter pilot, and a combat veteran of the war in Afghanistan, who’s been awarded the Bronze Star, Meritorious Service Medal and the Air Medal. iTunes  GooglePlay  SoundCloud  Spotify RadioPublic  Stitcher  Read the transcript

Chapter 2: Gender & Race

Episode 5 - “Boys will be boys.”: Why are guns a symbol, for many, of masculinity? Are boys and men more violent? Or do they turn to violence and guns as tools in the absence of other alternatives to dealing with their problems? Guests: Niobe Way, Professor of Developmental Psychology at New York University, author of Deep Secrets: Boys' Friendships and The Crisis of Connection, and TEDMED 2018 speaker; Benjamin Sledge, former Army Special Operations Command and recipient of the Bronze Star, Purple Heart and two Army Commendation medals; and Jim Taylor, Professor of Sociology at Ohio University and an expert on gun subcultures and masculinity in America. iTunes  GooglePlay  SoundCloud  Spotify RadioPublic  Stitcher  Read the transcript

Episode 6 - He’s got a gun: There’s an important link between intimate partner violence (i.e. domestic violence) and gun violence. The majority of mass shootings occurs in the context of intimate partner violence. And women are most likely to be killed by an intimate partner — a husband, ex-husband, boyfriend or ex-boyfriend — than by anyone else. Guests: Jacquelyn Campbell, Professor at the Johns Hopkins University School of Nursing; Ruth Glenn, CEO of the National Coalition Against Domestic Violence, and a survivor of both intimate partner violence and gun violence; April Zeoli, Associate Professor at Michigan State University School of Criminal Justice, and TEDMED 2018 speaker; and Michael Siegel, Professor at the Boston University School of Public Health. iTunes  GooglePlay  SoundCloud  Spotify RadioPublic  Stitcher  Read the transcript

Episode 7: She’s got a gun

Chapter 3: Are guns the problem?
Chapter 4: Urban Violence
Chapter 5: Gun Safety
Chapter 6: Where do we go from here?

Season 2: The Opioid Overdose Crisis

Trailer  iTunes  GooglePlay  SoundCloud  Spotify RadioPublic  Stitcher  RadioTuneIn

Episode 1 - Is addiction a brain disease?: Is addiction a brain disease? a moral failing or lack of willpower? or neither? And why does it matter? Guests: Prof. Owen Flanagan, expert on the philosophy of mind and psychiatry, ethics and moral psychology at Duke University, and in recovery from substance abuse; Dr. Nora Volkow, Director of the National Institute on Drug Abuse at the National Institutes of Health, and TEDMED 2014 speaker; Dr. Carl Hart, Chair of Psychology at Columbia University, author of High Price: A Neuroscientist's Journey of Self-Discovery That Challenges Everything You Know About Drugs and Society, and TEDMED 2014 speaker; Prof. Candice Shelby, professor of philosophy at the University of Colorado, and author of Addiction: A Philosophical Perspective.  iTunes  GooglePlay  SoundCloud  Spotify RadioPublic  Stitcher  Read the transcript

Episode 2 - Neonatal Abstinence Syndrome (NAS): Is neonatal abstinence syndrome -- babies whose mothers used opioids in pregnancy and who go into withdrawal after birth -- is another form of intergenerational violence? And how can a community stop the cycle? Guests: Lieutenant Debbie Richmond, specialist in child abuse investigations at the Bristol Tennessee Police Department; Lisa Carter, CEO of Niswonger Children's Hospital in Johnson City, Tennessee; Ashlie Harrod, nurse educator with the Sullivan County Health Department in Tennessee; Chris Miller, Chief Patient Experience Officer of Mountain States Health Alliance's Washington County Market, and the adoptive father of a baby boy with neonatal abstinence syndrome.  iTunes  GooglePlay  SoundCloud  Spotify RadioPublic  Stitcher  Read the transcript

Episode 3 - The Rise of Fentanyl: How has the rise of fentanyl led to a spike in drug overdose deaths? And why would anyone want to take or deal in such a deadly drug? Guests: Mark Kinzly, co-founder of the Texas Overdose Naloxone Initiative, staff member with the Austin Harm Reduction Coalition in Texas, board member for the National Harm Reduction Coalition, and former heroin user; Carole Rendon, former US attorney for the Northern District of Ohio and a partner at Baker Hostetler LLP; Dr. Thomas P. Gilson, medical examiner for Cuyahoga County, and executive director for the Cuyahoga County crime laboratory; Christopher Tersigni, Assistant Special Agent at the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA); Dr. Denise Paone, Senior Director of Research and Surveillance at the Bureau of Alcohol and Drug Use Prevention, Care and Treatment at the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene.   iTunes  GooglePlay  SoundCloud  Spotify RadioPublic  Stitcher  Read the transcript

Episode 4 - Is there fentanyl in my drugs?: Could we save lives by offering drug users anonymous purity testing of their drugs for adulterants and dangerous cutting agents like fentanyl? Guests: Dr. Carl Hart, Chair of Psychology at Columbia University, author of High Price: A Neuroscientist's Journey of Self-Discovery That Challenges Everything You Know About Drugs and Society, and TEDMED 2014 speaker; Daan van der Gouwe, a researcher at the Trimbos Instituut in the Netherlands; Tino Fuentes, freelance harm reduction consultant, former Director of Syringe Access and Naloxone programs at St. Ann’s Corner of Harm Reduction in New York City, and former heroin dealer and user.  iTunes  GooglePlay  SoundCloud  Spotify RadioPublic  Stitcher  Read the transcript

Episode 5 - Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACEs): In the 1990s, researchers recruited 17,000 adults to answer questions about childhood stressors and trauma and their health. What does this groundbreaking research -- the Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACEs) study -- show us about how to treat substance abuse? Guests: Phillip Fiuty, Coordinator for Harm Reduction Programs at Santa Fe Mountain Center, and in recovery from substance abuse; Dr. Daniel Sumrok, Director of the Center for Addiction Science at the University of Tennessee Health Science Center in Memphis; Dr. Nora Volkow, Director of the National Institute on Drug Abuse at the National Institutes of Health, and TEDMED 2014 speaker; Dr. Gabor Maté, expert on addiction, stress and childhood development, co-founder of Compassion for Addiction, former physician with the Portland Hotel Society and Insite in Vancouver, Canada, author of In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts, and a Holocaust survivor.   iTunes  GooglePlay  SoundCloud  Spotify RadioPublic  Stitcher  Read the transcript

Episode 6 - Cops as social workers?: What if the criminal justice system emphasized housing and social services over crime and punishment? Guests: Amy Kroll, administrator for re-entry services in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania; Dr. João Castel-Branco Goulão, the national drug coordinator for Portugal and the architect of Portugal's drug policy; and Kris Nyrop, national support director for Law Enforcement Assisted Diversion (LEAD).   iTunes  GooglePlay  SoundCloud  Spotify RadioPublic Stitcher  Read the transcript

Episode 7 - A Safe Space to Use Drugs: What if we gave drug users a clean, safe place to use? out of the alleys and off the streets? Could that be the first rung on the ladder to recovery? Or would we be creating magnets for drug-related crime? Guests: Liz Evans, co-founder of Vancouver’s InSite, the first supervised consumption site in North America; Linda Rosenthal, New York State assembly woman representing the 67th district in Manhattan and TEDMED 2017 speaker; Patricia Sully a staff attorney for the Public Defender Association and coordinator of VOCAL Washington; and Washington State Senator Mark Miloscia, who’s trying to block the opening of such sites in his state.   iTunes  GooglePlay  SoundCloud  Spotify RadioPublic  Stitcher   Read the transcript

Episode 8 - Drugs to treat addiction? (even heroin & hydromorphone): Medications can play an important role in helping people recover from addiction. And sometimes, those medications can be the very drug they’re trying to quit. We talk about medication-assisted treatment -- from methadone and buprenorphine to heroin and hydromorphone. Guests: Dr. Mark Tyndall, Director of the British Columbia Center for Disease Control in Canada and TEDMED 2017 speaker; Paul Cherashore with the Philadelphia Overdose Prevention Initiative; and Dr. Barbara Broers, Director of the Dependency Unit at the University of Geneva, and Vice President of the Swiss Federal Commission for Drug-Related Affairs and of the Swiss Society for for Addiction Medicine.   iTunes  GooglePlay  SoundCloud  Spotify RadioPublic  Stitcher  Read the transcript

Episode 9 - Sharing Opana & Syringes in Small Town Indiana: Opioid abuse is affecting small towns across the U.S. in unprecedented ways. In 2015, Austin, Indiana was ground zero for one of the biggest HIV outbreaks in U.S. history -- the end result of sharing Opana and syringes. Guests: Bekki, a resident of Austin and mother to an injection drug user who got HIV; Dr. Will Cooke, the only doctor in Austin; Wayne Crabtree, Director of the Office of Addiction Services at Louisville Metro Public Health and Wellness; and Dr. Carolyn Wester, the Medical Director for HIV, STD and Viral Hepatitis at the Tennessee Department of Health.   iTunes  GooglePlay  SoundCloud  Spotify RadioPublic  Stitcher  Read the transcript

Episode 10 - What comes after you survive an overdose?: Naloxone can save the lives of drug users from deadly overdose, but what happens after someone survives an overdose? Does naloxone give users a false sense of security, encouraging them to use more? Guests: Jonathan Goyer, manager of Anchor MORE at the Providence Center, a drug recovery program, and advisor to the Rhode Island governor’s overdose taskforce; and Dr. Julie Donohue, a professor at the University of Pittsburgh School of Public Health.   iTunes  GooglePlay  SoundCloud  Spotify RadioPublic  Stitcher  Read the Transcript

Episode 11 - This Is America: Race and the War on Drugs: The U.S.'s unique history of slavery and race relations have played no small part in how we approach drug abuse and addiction differently from other developed countries—from the supposed “Negro cocaine fiends” of the early Jim Crow era… to the “law-and-order” politics that emerged, partly, in response to the race riots of the Civil Rights years… to “crack babies” in the '80s. But our history may, finally, be changing. Guests: Ekow Yankah, Professor of Law and Criminal Theory at Yeshiva University's Cardozo Law School; Philippe Bourgois, Professor of Anthropology and the Director of the Center for Social Medicine and Humanities in the Psychiatry Department at the UCLA Medical School; and David Courtwright, Professor of History at the University of North Florida.   iTunes  GooglePlay  SoundCloud  Spotify RadioPublic  Stitcher  Read the transcript

Episode 12 - Can we sue our way out of the opioid crisis?: Is anyone to blame for the opioid overdose epidemic? Should we be going after white-collar criminals like pharmaceutical company executives, distributors and doctors? What can we learn from the lawsuits against Big Tobacco? And will suing Big Pharma help get us out of this crisis? Guests: David Courtwright, Professor of History at the University of North Florida; Joe Rice, a lead negotiator in the Big Tobacco, BP Oil Spill, 9/11 victims and asbestos manufacturer settlements; James Tierney, former Attorney General of Maine and a key strategist in the fight against Big Tobacco; John Banzhaf, Professor of Law at the George Washington University; Robert Rabin, Professor of Law at Stanford University; and Rosalie Pacula, Senior Economist and Co-Director of RAND’s Drug Policy Research Center.   iTunes  GooglePlay  SoundCloud  Spotify RadioPublic  Stitcher  Read the transcript

Episode 13 - Religion, Responsibility, Blame & Shame: Is drug use immoral? Can religious leaders and communities help people recover from addiction? And can we hold people responsible without blame and shame? Guests: Pastor Steve Gallimore, Tennessee Valley Community Church; Kayla Kalel, in recovery from opioid addiction and a volunteer for Young People in Recovery; Bill Kinkle, health care provider who's in recovery from opioid addiction; Father Luis Barrios, Holyrood Episcopal Church-Iglesia Santa Cruz and co-founder of St. Ann's Corner of Harm Reduction in New York City; Dr. Farha Abassi, Assistant Professor of Psychiatry at Michigan State University and founder of the Muslim Mental Health Conference; and Hanna Pickard, Professor of Philosophy at the University of Birmingham in the UK.   iTunes  GooglePlay  SoundCloud  Spotify RadioPublic  Stitcher  Read the transcript

Season 1: Youth & Mental Health

Trailer  iTunes  GooglePlay  SoundCloud  Spotify RadioPublic  Stitcher

Episode 1 - Communication & Contagion: How do we communicate responsibly about depression and suicide without fueling contagion? During the 2016-2017 academic year, Columbia University was rocked by at least five student suicides. Guests: Jacqueline Basulto and Sean Ryan, Columbia University graduates; Dr. Dan Reidenberg, Executive Director of Suicide Awareness Voices of Education (SAVE); Jennifer Michael Hecht, historian, poet and author of Stay: A History of Suicide and the Arguments Against It.  iTunes  GooglePlay  SoundCloud  Spotify RadioPublic  Stitcher  Read the transcript

Episode 2 - Switch or Die: why trans teens are at such high risk for suicide: Why are LGBTQ youth at such high risk of depression, anxiety and suicide? Guests: Ed Tully, father of a transgender teen in Minnesota; Dr. Ximena Lopez, pediatric endocrinologist specializing in adolescent trans care at UT Southwestern Medical Center and TEDMED 2017 speaker.  iTunes  GooglePlay  SoundCloud  Spotify RadioPublic  Stitcher  Read the transcript

Episode 3 - Academic & Social Pressure: How do new stressors contribute to the risk of suicide among young people? Guests: Kristine Bernardoni, mother in California whose son was one of a cluster of students to die by suicide at his high school; Sarah Molina and Brandaly Mora, high school students in Florida who have themselves experienced suicidal ideation and are now doing what they can to help others through their work with the HOPE Sunshine Club; Dr. Denise Pope, adolescent stress researcher at the Stanford Graduate School of Education, co-founder of Challenge Success, and author of Overloaded and Underprepared: Strategies for Stronger Schools and Healthy, Successful Kids.  iTunes  GooglePlay  SoundCloud  Spotify RadioPublic  Stitcher  Read the transcript

Episode 4 - Social Media, Big Data & Other Solutions: How can social media, texting and big data be used to improve mental health and prevent suicide? And what can colleges and universities do to help their students? Guests: Nancy Lublin, founder and CEO of the Crisis Text Line, founder of and Dress for Success, TEDWomen 2015 speaker; Bob Filbin, Chief Data Scientist at the Crisis Text Line; Dr. Glen Coppersmith, founder and CEO of QNTFY; John MacPhee, Executive Director and CEO of the JED Foundation; Brandaly Mora and Sarah Molina, students at Cooper City High School and members of the HOPE Sunshine Club.  iTunes  GooglePlay  SoundCloud  Spotify RadioPublic  Stitcher  Read the transcript

Episode 5 - The Role of TV & Film: Can movies and shows like Netflix's 13 Reasons Why raise awareness about mental health and help those at risk for suicide? Guests: Dr. Victor Schwartz, suicide prevention expert and Chief Medical Officer at the JED Foundation; Erahm Christopher, director of Listen; Michael Lehman, director of the cult classic Heathers; Jenny Jaffe, writer, actress and comedienne, founder of Project UROK, and star of IFC's Neurotica.  iTunes  GooglePlay  SoundCloud  Spotify RadioPublic  Stitcher  Read the transcript





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